Introduction
[00:00:00] Jon Jordan: Hey and welcome to the cellular video games playbook. Thanks for tuning in for an additional episode. This can be a podcast all about what makes an amazing cellular sport, what’s and isn’t working for cellular sport designers and the entire newest developments. I’m your host, Jon Jordan, and becoming a member of me right this moment, we’ve got two specialists who’re gonna be speaking concerning the, I assume, as I say, the 2 sides of the coin of cellular promoting. So we’ve acquired loads to speak about, and we’ve got Kenneth Wong, who’s the senior director of advertisements income at Scopely. How’s it going, Kenneth?
[00:00:33] Kenneth Wong: Fairly good, good to be on this podcast. So, I’m wanting ahead to chatting about all issues industry-related.
[00:00:39] Jon: Good. And also you’re on the advertisements income aspect of issues. So, are you able to give us somewhat snapshot of what that entails?
[00:00:45] Kenneth: Yeah, so I handle the day-to-day operation for all of the ad-related objects for Scopely. So, we’ve got all of the completely different sorts of advert codecs in our sport. So there’s a number of issues, each in-house and exterior, when it comes to communication that I handle, like companion relationships and inner companion relationships as effectively. In order that’s a number of issues that we will go over on this podcast.
[00:01:13] Jon: Completely. Good, good. And I assume the opposite aspect of cellular advertisements is consumer acquisition. So, constructing out your viewers. And discuss that, we’ve got Yumin Gu, who’s the director of consumer acquisition. Let’s go, please. How’s it going, Yumin?
[00:00:37] Yimin Gu: Hello Jon, hello everyone. Hello, I’m Yimin, and I’m the director of Efficiency Advertising and marketing as we not too long ago rebranded our group from Consumer Acquisition. Yeah, so I’m main the Efficiency Advertising and marketing group on the social aspect of the video games for Scopely. Yeah, I’m tremendous excited to be right here and looking out ahead to chatting extra about all the things on the viewers and progress aspect.[00:01:53] Jon: As you say, loads to speak about. I imply, I believe the cellular advertisements scene has been round for so long as the cellular gaming scene has been, but it surely appears to be from very a lot from an outsider’s perspective; it’s certainly one of this stuff that’s continually altering. And I assume most individuals realize it’s gone by some fairly large adjustments within the final two years. So, there’s loads to speak about there. However I assume as a very headline factor, you each work at Scopely. One of many, I assume, one of the profitable cellular video games firms over the past 10 years, I believe, very, very profitable over the past decade and nonetheless rising quick with a giant acquisition from Savvy Gaming introduced. They’re nonetheless pretty current. So, I assume one of the best is but to come back for Scopely, however we’re not speaking about Scopely per se. We’re speaking right this moment about concepts of efficiency promoting and advert income. So, what do you need to break down? Consumer acquisition has modified loads not too long ago. The place do you assume we’re in the meanwhile? The place are the belongings you give attention to in the meanwhile that could be a bit completely different from what we noticed a yr in the past?
Challenges of consumer acquisition
[00:04:07] Yimin: Yeah, effectively, I believe the {industry} is simply an ever or ever-constant altering evolving house. And with it, after all, UA methods and channels are altering too. In my view, the UA panorama as a complete is adapting to 2 essential shifts. One is the way in which folks eat content material. And two is how the promoting ecosystem adjustments. For the primary half, for instance, I believe our audiences are extra used to consuming content material in several methods. Like they’re watching short-form movies extra and consuming influencer content material much more than earlier than as effectively. On our aspect, this has led to an growth of promoting channels. I believe a number of the efficiency advertising and marketing groups are actually leveraging extra like influencer advertising and marketing or influencer efficiency advertising and marketing.
And one other instance, the way in which that individuals watch TV can be completely different now than earlier than, proper? Like, I believe we was once extra watching linear TV, and now linked TV has turn into extra predominant, particularly with the youthful demographics. CTV has now turn into extra accessible and likewise a extra versatile media platform. It’s additionally turning into a extra leveraged media for efficiency advertisers. So yeah, I believe extra groups are simply leveraging these rising methods like influencer advertising and marketing, like linked TV. Additionally, with all that, I believe it requires tighter integration with inner model groups’ communications to succeed in a broader viewers, for certain.
And to my second level, with the change within the advertiser ecosystem, everyone is aware of about it. There have been so many adjustments round information privateness laws, which has led to the rise of contextual promoting methods that depend on content material and consumer habits greater than personalised concentrating on. So, after all, extra publishers are additionally attempting to make use of AI and machine studying algorithms to optimize segmentation, predictive modeling, and marketing campaign optimizations.
However yeah, total, simply to remain aggressive on this {industry}, we simply should, I really feel like, keep on prime of all these new rising developments and challenges. As of now, a lot of groups are benefiting from new advertising and marketing channels and leveraging AI much more than earlier than to accumulate new customers and drive success, however we’ll simply should be very adaptive on this market.
[00:07:32] Jon: I assume what you’re saying there’s fascinating as a result of it’s the way in which I see issues. Issues had been by no means easy, however undoubtedly, earlier than all of the monitoring stuff went. There was a normal playbook everybody performed towards. I imply, whereas now you could have, not solely does that not work anymore, you could have all these ever-increasing quantities of channels, and I assume the opposite factor is for you guys who’ve fairly a variety of genres that you simply’re attempting to generate audiences for, then the factor that works for sport A might be, until it’s precisely the identical style, it’s not gonna work for sport B. So you could have these multi-directional conditions the place all the things’s altering, and that’s why stuff like AI machine studying comes into play as a result of there’s no manner that human beings may use that, cope with these quantities of variance in a logical manner.
Challenges in consumer acquisition methods
[00:08:42] Yimin: Yeah, for certain. I believe as a result of Scopely is structured, and completely different UA groups help completely different clusters of video games. And, after all, we talk so typically to maintain one another posted on the current adjustments we’re seeing. However once more, to your level, Jon, it’s inconceivable to share all the things on a tiny foundation and to adapt and undertake learnings from each other very, very incessantly. So, for certain, leveraging AI is among the options that we’re adopting greater than ever. I believe it’s simply an inevitable development and a extra environment friendly answer than ever earlier than.
[00:08:33] Jon: I assume it’s fascinating as a result of the fundamental factor you’re attempting to do is, you’re attempting to get folks to obtain your video games. I imply, that’s the spotlight. And I assume the spotlight is that you simply’re attempting to get the people who find themselves going to play your video games loads and spend cash on these video games. I imply, that’s the headline. That’s what UA is about, isn’t it? That’s why you now name it efficiency advertising and marketing, I suppose as a result of it’s the efficiency of you’re spending cash on this finish, the tip of the stream, you need to have extra money being generated. That’s primary enterprise 101. However, so with that factor, how does that play throughout Scopely with all its video games? As you say, there are completely different groups working various things.
Are there learnings that you are able to do throughout the entire portfolio, or does it break down very a lot into atomic learnings that labored very well for this channel for these months, and then you definitely throw it away and begin once more? So that you’re not too anxious about having some logical system of the way it works. You’re simply it, and it labored. Does that make sense as a query? I assume it performs into AI. I don’t know if that is the state you could have in the meanwhile, however you would think about that in an AI or machine studying the place the result’s you place cash in, and also you get extra money out, and also you don’t actually care what occurs, or do you care what occurs? Is that half, do you consider your experience that there’s that market data that you’ve got that may affect the system?
Complexity of game-specific UA methods
[00:11:22] Yimin: Yeah, I believe there are undoubtedly issues that may be relevant from one to a different. However the cause that we now should leverage AI greater than ever is that we need to create extra custom-made experiences for our audiences. Proper? And we additionally need to create extra cohesive experiences for our gamers. Our purpose is to not simply have them obtain the sport. It’s as you stated, play the sport, have interaction with the sport, and in the long run, in all probability monetize in our sport. To attain that, we’ll should ensure that our customers have expectations once they see our advertisements. After which, once they land into the sport, they see that the sport truly achieved their expectation. After which they keep throughout the sport, retain within the sport. And proceed participating and monetizing in a sport. That’s our purpose.
And for that, we’ll should do much more customization, which is for certain a number of effort throughout completely different groups. We work so carefully with our inventive group. We work so carefully with our product group, all that. So yeah, for certain. It isn’t identical to as soon as we do it and it may be utilized to all methods, it’s extra like a catered and bespoke technique per completely different features.
[00:12:55] Jon: Yeah, I don’t understand how a lot you possibly can say about this, however I used to be studying an article a few months in the past, and it was nearly sure varieties of video games and the quantity of creativity they had been producing was identical to 1000’s and 1000’s of advertisements. I imply, it was simply completely unbelievable now that the workflow required to create the advertisements to suit all these channels was at all times turning into like sport growth in of itself in simply the quantity of labor that was required from artwork groups. And I assume, however I assume ALA solves that as effectively, does it? Or possibly it doesn’t, I don’t know.
AI in inventive manufacturing processes
[00:13:35] Yimin: Yeah, I imply, I believe generative AI is now additionally turning into a extra leveraged device in efficiency advertising and marketing as effectively. I’ve seen it being utilized to a number of inventive manufacturing processes, particularly with easier belongings like iterations including voiceover or having some easy localisations. So it’s, it undoubtedly has supplied a number of worth. However once more, I believe proper now, it nonetheless wants a number of extra guide human enter. For extra sophisticated initiatives, I believe we nonetheless must depend on our inner inventive group to provide the belongings and cater for this extra custom-made expertise for our customers.
[00:14:37] Jon: And I assume going again to AI solves all of it, one factor that I may do if that was not bounded by your guide enter is clearly you would come out with advertisements that had been actually profitable or actually profitable when it comes to driving audits, however they weren’t coherent to your sport. And I assume in {industry}, there have at all times been individuals who have made up advertisements that had nothing to do with their sport, which clearly works very well, however equally, that’s, I assume, from a status viewpoint, that’s not one thing that respected firms like Scopely need to get entangled with.
Significance of brand name enforcement
[00:15:12] Yimin: Yeah, completely. I believe everyone knows what kind of advertisements you’re speaking about, and we’ve in all probability seen them like 100 occasions. That’s precisely why we nonetheless must have human enter into all this content material. Having some core values and model enforcement is unquestionably crucial in all of the messaging that we ship to our audiences. So, for certain, as a UA group, we work carefully with our model group for lots of the asset approval as effectively to ensure that we’re following our model tips to ship the core values to our audiences.
[00:15:59] Jon: And one closing factor on this level, you talked about the influencers a couple of occasions, and I assume influencers, I don’t know, 5 or 6 years in the past, once they first began coming in, we noticed numerous exercise round that, but it surely appeared like in a number of circumstances, it was not very, essentially very sustainable, or it was fairly laborious to suit into the efficiency advertising and marketing stream since you discuss again then no less than after I was masking it you’d pay a ten to 1000 {dollars} to somebody to do a video about it after which they subsequent week they do a video about one thing else and so it’s all fairly laborious to actually be attributable. Have you ever discovered that the ecosystem is now extra mature, and you’ll drive a sustainable viewers by there? And since clearly there’s we at all times hear about these huge influences and on these channels larger as ever, however I surprise now whether or not, so we’ve got this example the place there’s much more, I assume there’s much more smaller influencers who could not offer you scale, however in case you can deal with a number of influences then that provides you a number of scale in a extra coherent manner than possibly a few of these very top-end costly ones.
Influencer advertising and marketing developments
[00:17:17] Yimin: Yeah, I believe each time there’s a new development available in the market, we have to give the viewers a while to coach themselves. I believe over the previous few years, our audiences are actually extra used to watching these influencer-promoted content material. Now, they perceive extra that that is how influencers make their lives. And so long as I believe the promoted content material is extra easily embedded into their content material, then I believe it’s in all probability a significantly better commercial to the audiences. When it comes to attributing efficiency, I believe there are nonetheless two various kinds of influencer campaigns that we run, one just like what you simply talked about. OK, yeah, we pay them in a different way. The pricing mannequin is extra on value per content material. They don’t seem to be actually compelled by what number of impressions they should ship, what number of clicks they should drive, and what number of installs they should drive. So we nonetheless view these campaigns extra like model consciousness pushed.
However there are additionally, I believe, a number of the {industry} professionals from the efficiency advertising and marketing aspect are actually becoming a member of a number of these influencer companies and never solely influencer companies, however there are additionally groups from larger firms that are actually sectioned out to devoted to efficiency advertising and marketing. And the campaigns that they provide are extra achievable and extra performance-driven. And with these, undoubtedly, it’s a a lot better-fitted kind of marketing campaign for efficiency advertising and marketing.
[00:19:28] Jon: I believe that’s a great level. It does possibly actually journalists are at all times considering of issues occurring . And as you level out, it does take a stunning period of time for the viewers to get educated on how this stuff work. And I assume for these industries to develop up and definitely in terms of issues like with the ability to attribute audiences to completely different influences, that does take for much longer than we predict.
Okay, that was good. That was a great overview of the place we’re on the efficiency aspect. Thanks, Yimin.
And Kenneth, you’ve been very, very affected person there. Raring to go. So, you’re the opposite aspect of the coin. And I’ve to confess, that’s an space that I know much less about. And I believe it’s possibly an space that possibly has not been altering as dynamically. However what do I find out about it?
[00:20:01] Kenneth: Oh no, no, I’m studying a lot from Yimin.
[00:20:19] Jon: Inform me what’s been occurring in terms of driving income.
Transition and challenges in advert income
[00:20:24] Kenneth: Yeah, so such as you already stated, proper, it’s the flip aspect of the coin. So no matter Yimin is confronted with when it comes to challenges, we’re additionally dealing with the identical factor. Primarily, the primary, clearly, is privateness, proper? Privateness is loads like proper now with Apple, with the IDFA we’re speaking about, the {industry} averages round 25% ish when it comes to folks out of LAT.
So there’s lots of people that we’re not in a position to discuss to and serve focused advertisements to. And it’s a very hen and egg factor, proper? Persons are at all times like, hey, I don’t need to share my information. However on the similar time, why are you displaying this wealth of advertisements? And I used to be like, effectively, you possibly can’t have it on each side, proper? So for us, it’s very troublesome as a result of they’re complaining about wealth and consumer expertise, about we’re not serving the correct advertisements, however they’re not prepared to cross the idea to us to serve them focused advertisements. So I believe that’s one key factor that hurts efficiency. Bidding, as we alter right into a mannequin of bidding tech proper now, a lot of the networks and companions we’re working with are heading that manner. It’s actually modified a number of our operation, I assume, benefits of getting any large group the place we’ve got the assets to dig into the information and optimize. And that basically adjustments the panorama of the place advert monetization is.
After which the opposite factor is about consolidation. Like in the previous couple of years, there’s a lot consolidation, so many M&As. Basically, what it does is, if you concentrate on the folks within the public sale home, you could have fewer and fewer gamers. So you could have fewer and fewer gamers who’re prepared to bid larger and better to get the utmost efficiency and income for my aspect. So I believe that’s one other problem.
Final however not least, Yimin talked concerning the shift within the efficiency advertising and marketing finances. So, much more cash has gone to influencer CTV. These won’t get again to our pocket, just like the writer’s aspect pocket, proper? In order that additionally signifies that the pie could be, if it’s not rising, it’s standing nonetheless. So that you add all these components into it. We’re undoubtedly not within the rosiest place. The massive progress that we’ve seen in 5 to 6 years is gone. So how, basically, what we’re doing is protecting issues afloat, and the way can we sit up for the following large issues that permit us to have the following progress, basically?
[00:23:02] Jon: Hmm. Yeah. Has that influenced that slowing down? Do you assume that has influenced the varieties of video games, not possibly the sculpture making, but it surely’s all typically available in the market? Clearly, if there’s a giant rising manner in which you’ll be able to generate advertisements, cash, or income from advertisements, builders are going to be like, proper, let’s do extra of these issues. So do you assume there’s been a swap extra in direction of, proper, let’s actually focus down on in-app purchases, or is that simply too apparent?
Shifts in sport growth developments
[00:23:32] Kenneth: Yeah, I at all times assume so. Yeah, undoubtedly, there’s only a shift when it comes to, if you concentrate on possibly three, 4 years in the past, the rise of hyper-casual, proper? And the place the state of that style is true now, it’s not useless as a result of we nonetheless very a lot want hypercasual as a result of it’s fueling the ecosystem. However on the similar time, you see much less and fewer, and it turns into increasingly more troublesome. And that’s one of many the explanation why that house may not be as, I assume, excessive progress as one other style. And there’s at all times the preconceived notion that, no less than for the developer aspect, it’s simpler to transform folks than to point out them the advertisements as a result of they’re builders at coronary heart, proper? It’s like they need to make AAA titles. They need the consumer expertise. They mainly assume advertisements are evil, advertisements are dangerous, like, you don’t wanna present any advertisements until I’ve to, so I do assume there’s a development. It’s a frequent battle with a number of my mates within the {industry} as effectively to pitch advertisements internally as effectively.
[00:24:47] Jon: Mm-hmm. Do you assume we’re speaking about schooling across the advert mannequin for influencers? Do you maintain out any hope that schooling round players will imply that these opt-out charges change considerably? Or is that simply yesterday’s mannequin now? That’s gone now.
Addressing privateness issues and consumer schooling
[00:25:08] Kenneth: Yeah, I’d say so. I imply, we simply have to search out new methods to undertake these new guidelines, proper? And I assume that’s the enjoyable factor about being on this {industry}. You’re by no means on the plateau, such as you at all times are, you’re by no means at a peak the place the mountain is like, hey, I’m able to retire. Like simply sit nonetheless and simply let issues go. There are at all times new guidelines, new insurance policies, new laws that stream into the combination to make our job tougher or extra thrilling. It relies on in case you’re a half-full or a half-empty man, proper? So I believe we’re adapting. We’re on the stage of the best way to get a brand new format into the sport that talks about higher consumer expertise, much less invasive, however on the similar time is an extra income. I believe there could be one thing on the horizon about that, however we’ll have to attend and see. Our {industry} generally doesn’t transfer as quick as I wished to.
[00:26:02] Jon: However it’s in some methods ironic that the massive battle that was gained was incentivized advertisements in video games, which, from all the information I noticed, most players love these. They’d be like, can I’ve extra advertisements? As a result of they provide me the issues which might be in my sport. And it’s ironic that the flexibility for players to like advertisements has now been taken away from them, they usually get these advertisements they don’t need to see. And so they’re not so useful, in order that they don’t get the identical incentives. It was completely, out of your viewpoint, I’m certain it’s completely the incorrect factor to interrupt on that.
The way forward for advertisements, privateness, and cellular UA
[00:26:35] Kenneth: Yeah, I imply, the basics of the system, if you concentrate on rewarded advertisements, opt-in advertisements, it’s nonetheless right, proper? It’s that the privateness itself, I believe, goes again to platform schooling. I’ve mentioned it with Google not too long ago, and it’s like, hey, what are you guys going to do? As a result of quickly they’d observe Apple’s route when it comes to eradicating the first-party information. So, like, are you gonna be as strict as Apple? As a result of that basically is among the the explanation why my aspect of the coin is to have extra challenges than ever earlier than, proper? It’s about in case you take a look at the pop-up and say you could have all these small tags, after which the following factor you see is ask the app to not observe. Anybody who shouldn’t be in our {industry} will click on that button as a result of it’s so apparent that you shouldn’t, they usually’re not being specified what they’re monitoring, not no less than in a daring assertion of, hey, we don’t care about who you’re and the place you reside. We don’t know these issues. We don’t know your banking info. We simply need to serve you extra moderately, associated to you. And that’s the expertise that everybody needs. And I believe that’s the place it has to come back from on the prime, in case you like, on the very prime when it comes to platform. If the platform does a great job in pure schooling, everybody throughout the ecosystem will profit from it. So, after all, that’s larger and simpler stated than completed as a result of they’ve a billion-dollar {industry} that’s in search of a billion enterprise right this moment, and they should run on it. So yeah, we’ll, we’ll see what occurs, however I don’t assume it’s the format itself, however extra concerning the consumer schooling.
[00:28:09] Jon: Yeah. Good level. Nicely, as we come to the tip, I assume I’ll ask each of you, Yimin, we’ll go for you first. What do you assume within the subsequent yr or so, do you see, do you assume there’s gonna be any sudden adjustments? Is there gonna be any step-by-step perform occurring there with one thing like AI coming in or, as a lot as anybody can see the long run? How do you see that one taking part in out?
[00:28:46] Yimin: Yeah, I assume we’ve already touched somewhat bit, however the usage of AI is unquestionably going to be increasingly more prevailing. We already are seeing it being utilized in creating promoting belongings. And possibly it’s additionally being utilized in, like, sport artwork creation as effectively. Proper? And I believe as extra firms are going multi-platform, there’s in all probability a rising effort to create unified consumer profiles throughout completely different gadgets and platforms whereas we nonetheless respect consumer privateness and all the things. And I believe AI can be in all probability going to be leveraged loads on this entire course of as effectively. The applied sciences have turn into extra refined, they usually can already ship extra related content material and advertisements, however I believe sooner or later, it’s gonna get somewhat extra superior. And yeah, I believe, as Kenneth talked about earlier, we’ve seen a number of M&As within the {industry} prior to now years. Now, there are fewer however larger gamers available in the market.
And to this entire hit matter about extra moral and sustainable promoting practices, I believe we’d like all stakeholders within the house to collaborate extra and collectively, possibly we’d be capable to work in direction of establishing some higher practices for consumer privateness and information administration. Yeah, however like, I believe it’s all my private perspective into the way forward for cellular UA, however the {industry} is simply so dynamic, and it may be influenced by a number of surprising occasions and new technical breakthroughs that we presently don’t know, proper? So yeah, we’ll simply have to remain adaptable and stay knowledgeable of the most recent.
[00:31:20] Jon: It’s actually fascinating if there was, and I believe there possibly is a long-term development in direction of folks proudly owning their very own information. After which that creates some fascinating fashions about permitting you to trace them and supplying you with their information for possibly in-game belongings or one thing like that. And that possibly solves the interruption we’ve had in the meanwhile with platforms breaking what was fairly a great mannequin. Kenneth, how do you see subsequent yr?
[00:31:49] Kenneth: Yeah, I imply, we’re undoubtedly within the yr of transition, proper? So we’re undoubtedly attempting to know what the brand new world goes to appear to be. I do imagine that one of many codecs I’m very curious about is in-game promoting. You see it loads when it comes to Netflix, proper? Product placement is essential to Netflix’s success. So, being within the period of time individuals are spending in video games, I’m nonetheless stunned at how it isn’t extra, I assume, impactful when it comes to cellular promoting in video games.
However the excellent news is that there are extra firms doing it now. I believe it’s going to be on the rise. And I believe that’s in all probability one of many higher consumer experiences when it comes to promoting that, hey, you get the model in there, however then you definitely’re nonetheless taking part in the sport. You’re not exerting out. If something, the consumer expertise might be one of the best. Proper?
It goes to all the things else about AI and privateness. And I agree Unified ID can be one thing very fascinating. I hear some large platforms are occupied with in-game surveys, about issues like what they will do to be able to gather first-party information. And I believe that’s the important thing, proper? Gather as a lot first information as doable in the way in which that they play. How can we create a dynamic expertise due to that? I believe that’s one other key level.
When it comes to AI and ML, I believe the machine studying half is extra associated to the UA aspect, however on AI for us, it’s undoubtedly we’re already utilizing automated instruments to assist turn into extra environment friendly when it comes to a number of the operational duties, we automate it in order that, we save time and use these time to do extra like out on others issues that could be, serving to the enterprise, proper? When it comes to occupied with A-B testing, considering and segmentation, these are the issues which might be prime of thoughts for us, for certain.
[00:33:50] Jon: So I assume that’s summarized that within the medium time period, you get, or no less than hopefully get, some optimisation enhance from simply this new expertise. The AI stuff is clearly going to be necessary, however possibly in the long run as effectively, we hope that there’s going to be some extra structural adjustments as everybody’s a gamer now. So I believe, I believe the great factor is I believe, folks realized I’m giving my information to Fb, and never solely am I not getting something from it, I’m getting advertisements or that information has been given out to folks. I don’t need to have that information. Then that’s clearly one factor. But when it’s like I’m taking part in a sport that I like and it’s probably not my private information, it’s my gaming information. And if I’m getting extra stuff within the sport that I like from doing that, then I believe that’s a really completely different dynamic. So possibly, hopefully, in the long run, video games will turn into extra useful for advertisers as a result of it’s not your real-world information in the identical manner it’s for these different merchandise.
[00:34:47] Kenneth: Precisely, precisely. It’s a digital world of information, for certain.
[00:34:51] Jon: There we go, that’s the hopeful future. Nicely, thanks very a lot to Kenneth and Yimin for his or her experience and for serving to us try to unpick a few of these fascinating dynamics which might be occurring in house. Thanks in your time.
[00:35:04] Kenneth: Nicely, thanks for having us.
[00:35:06] Yimin: Thanks for internet hosting us, Jon.
[00:35:08] Jon: And due to you for watching and listening to the podcast, or nevertheless you’re consuming it. Each episode, we discuss to people who find themselves deep into the cellular video games {industry}, the most important single a part of the video games {industry} and one that’s reaching billions and billions of individuals and is admittedly fascinating when it comes to all of the dynamics and what’s occurring. So please subscribe to the podcast, and I’ll see you subsequent time. See you then, bye-bye.